In a recent episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, Joe Rogan sat down with historian and author John Lisle, who wrote The Dirty Tricks Department and Project Mind Control, to talk about CIA experiments, the JFK assassination, and how disinformation spreads.
But one of the most unexpected moments came when Rogan made it clear he has no fondness for the pre-Internet era.
“F*** those times, that was stupid,” Rogan said after Lisle asked if he ever felt nostalgic for the days before the internet.
Internet Over Ignorance
Instead of missing the past, Rogan argued that the internet, for all its flaws, is still better than the days when government agencies had more control over the media.
“Now we know intelligence agencies [were] absolutely in control of what’s distributed in mainstream news,” he said.
“It’s way better now. You have more access to information.”
Still, he admitted that the internet’s constant flow of information is a psychological minefield. “It’s way more complicated to live your life,” Rogan said.
“You’re constantly being informed… instead of your friends, instead of your life, you’re constantly looking at all the problems that are happening all over the world.”
Lisle agreed, noting that being exposed to tragedies and crises from around the world every day can impact mental health.
“It’s not that in the past all this negative stuff didn’t happen. It’s just that in the past you were probably more focused on your community,” he said.
Secret Weapons and Strange Experiments
Their wide-ranging conversation included some of the more bizarre projects in U.S. history, including the OSS’s World War II-era “bat bomb” idea.
Real bats were strapped with tiny napalm bombs and dropped over mock cities to see if they’d roost in buildings before igniting. One test bat escaped and flew into a control tower, setting it on fire.
They also discussed the infamous MKULTRA experiments, where the CIA tested LSD on people without their consent.
Rogan and Lisle talked at length about Louis “Jolly” West, a key figure in the program who once visited Jack Ruby in jail. Ruby, who killed Lee Harvey Oswald, reportedly went insane after that visit.
Rethinking the JFK Assassination
Rogan was unapologetic when discussing about the JFK assassination either. He called the official “magic bullet” theory “complete utter nonsense” and said, “They killed the president and got away with it.”
“I think there was a lot of people involved,” Rogan added.
“It probably involved our government. It might have involved the mafia. It might have involved other governments.”
Disinformation and the Fight for Truth
Lisle, who has written two books on the intelligence community, shared how disinformation campaigns work.
He cited a Soviet-era example where real facts were bundled with lies to make those lies more believable. “The lie is made more potent because it’s sandwiched in between all these truths,” Lisle explained.
This tactic, he said, is still used today. The goal is to flood the public with so much conflicting information that no one knows what to believe.
Rogan agreed: “You could just completely screw up the idea of what the truth is.”
The Bot Problem and Online Manipulation
The two also talked about social media bots and propaganda campaigns designed to stoke division in America.
“They were trying to get people to argue with each other,” Rogan said, referencing Russian efforts to organize clashing protests.
Even with all this chaos, Rogan is still convinced the internet is better than the alternative.
“It’s harder… but it’s better than being ignorant,” he said. “You have to find a way to weather whatever that psychological storm is and seek shelter.”